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KAMRanch · Feb 9, 2018 12:23 PM

Is there EVER just a "brown" or homozygous brown heard helper? I have only seen heterozygous brown as one.. I'm desperate for simple brown horses but can't seem to ever get AtAts.. =((

Is there ever a sable one also? Thought I saw one once, but must be really rare? Sad panda..

RoseFlute · Feb 9, 2018 12:34 PM

I don't think there's a sable champagne one, but there is the rare Homozygous Brown DHH. There's also the True Breeding Brown Appaloosa, which is rank 5. It's a somewhat rare color, but you can find horse's from those and rank specials up for breeding. Maybe you can find a stud?

Cheers · Feb 9, 2018 1:59 PM

Just shared a Hom brown HH on the forum. I’m happy to make you ponies from it if you let me know what you’re looking for.

I don’t think there’s a regular sable HH, though I definitely wish the color came up more often. I think the only sable we get is the Kings Ransom RS, and they’re Cream pearl so you don’t get that lovely sable color from them. Maybe Ammit will have a weekend wish or another chance for us to recommend rank specials sometime soon and we can ask for a normal sable something Rank Special.

SandycreekFarm · Feb 9, 2018 2:05 PM

If you're looking for truly dark brown horses, they should be Ata. AtAt produces a lighter color.

Ata with SstySsty

Midnight Orchid 2

Ata with Pangare

Vivacious

AtAt SstySsty PP

Washington Post 1X

AtAt SS pp

Claritas

KAMRanch · Feb 9, 2018 4:21 PM

OHEMGEE! THANK YOU @cheers!
Thanks guys!
I thought At was supposed to be dominant over a, but I bred an Ata to an aa and got an aa.. :( any help there much appreciated! Does just an A overpower an At? Genes are still so confusing to me!

RoseFlute · Feb 9, 2018 4:31 PM

Dominance has no bearing on what is passed on. :) It's a completely 50/50% chance. What dominance does is it tells you which out of the two alleles present will express on the overall color of the horse. At is dominant over a, A is dominant over At, and A+ is dominant over A. They all need at least one dominant E allele to express at all, or it's just a chestnut, but if you had an AAt, you'd have a plain bay, if you had an A+A you'd have a wild bays, and if you had an At, you'd have a brown, excluding all other gene possibilities. :)
You can totally try breeding your browns and blacks back together, since that's the best way I know of to spread brown from a small population. :)

SandycreekFarm · Feb 9, 2018 6:31 PM

Here's another way to look at the Agouti dominance chain, listed from most to least dominant.

A+--wild bay
A--bay
At--brown
a--recessive, no Agouti

You need at least heterozygous black at Extension--Ee or EE--coupled with Aa or AA or AAt to get a bay horse. A+ will always give you a wild bay with patchy gray legs and probably a dorsal stripe. You must have Ata or AtAt to have a brown horse, however AtAt pushes more of the black into the points than Ata, so those horses will be lighter.

A horse that is homozygous recessive at extension, or red-based, ee, can carry one or two of the dominant Agouti genes, but none of them will be expressed without a Black E allele.

That's really exactly the same thing RoseFlute posted, just worded in a different way. I often find that the when a complex concept is presented in slightly different different ways,I understand it better.

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