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Another Way to Look at our Stallions
  • A few months ago (maybe even a year ago) I started a post like this one, and I got some very valuable information from, and a lot of us had fun, so I'm hoping to do it again.

    I'd like us to take a look at "Kull rates" of stallions (please note NoT intact rates. So basically, how effective is a stallion at giving you foals that you want to keep. (Please note pasture bonus, mares etc all have a factor in this so when I make a post I tried to include relevant data such as that).

    A Made up Example:

    I need some new show ponies (preferably pretty ones), so I take my star* stallion and breed him to the most readily available mares. In this example yellow foundation mares. Let's say I find 43 mares. Since my stallion is really pretty and has frame and some kit genes, and a mare with lethal genes (frame or white genes up to) sneaks into the pasture. So I breed these 43 mares and get only 42 foals. I SBA these foals and only 1 remains intact. So the stallion in this case has a 2.5% intact rate. But what I really need is some nice show ponies. I decide only to keep those with above 10.7 PT. Only 25 horses make the cut. But when I am looking through the foals there is just one that is SO plain jane I just can't stand to have it in my barn. And besides she only has 10.8 PT so I Kull her too. So 24 horses are kept out of 43 "coverings". So 55% keep rate and 45% Kull rate.

    Sorry this makes no sense, but I'll recap.

    From this stallion I hoped for a specific goal. Pretty show horses that have a PT of minimum 10.7. Only 55% of the coverings fulfilled this, even though he had 97.5% alteration rate.

    Please feel free to share your stallions. I always enjoy seeing what other people are doing and they cull etc. And bounce ideas back and forth.
    Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
    Thanked by 1supersarah
  • Bookmarking this to return to after I do a little more breeding!
  • When I was going through my boys I saw these two who were getting up in years, and I know that I'm going to miss them so I was hoping to get some pretty breeding stock from them.

    image
    2G AWS Drool Over You

    image
    2G AWS A Wanted Spot


    Ideally I would cross them with an appaloosa pasture, but they weren't in the pasture at the time and I figured that for their last breeding season (most likely) they deserved girls with full pasture bonus. So I managed to find some miscellaneous mares that had full pasture bonus, 44 of them in all.

    Drool Over You got 20 covered and A Wanted Spot got 24. So really not that many each, but oh well.

    Kulling procedures were the same for both of them.

    1. SBA all foals. (11 (45% alteration) remained intact from Drool over You, 15 from A wanted spot 37.5%). (Please remember that this number more represents how closely they match the mares, not necessarily how quality the foals are).
    2. In this case I immediately rejected all altered. I need auction rejects right now and start PT testing with 4G foals (3G parents) (So 40% Kull already)
    3. Name and keep all mares. (In this case whether they were red papered or blue papered I would still keep them, so I didn't want to spend the money for BI)
    4. Individually go through each stallion to see if there are any that are aesthetically pleasing. Warmbloods automically Kulled ( I think 3 were kulled just for this). Frame is allowed in stallions but they must be "Wow" not just look ok. I think this kulled another 2).
    5. BI the stallions that are left, kulling all B papered. (I require A by 3G. Especially since I have a good amount of 2G A's and I have a stallion problem). (4 in all made it through SBA, then visual inspection just to be culled by paper)


    Overall Drool Over you had 15 Kulled. Divide 15 by the 20 he covered and you get 75% Kull rate. A Wanted spot had 16 Kulled. Diving that by 24 originally covered and you get 66% culled.

    Recap

    Drool Over You
    Alteration rate: 45%
    Kull Rate: 75%

    A Wanted Spot
    Alteration Rate: 37.5%
    Cull rate: 66%
    Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
  • At the end of the last breeding season I just randomly threw horses into the pasture. I had some 4G horses of high and low bone weights, and some foundations just to make sure not a single pasture day was going to be wasted. Since there were some heavy weights and some light weights I decided to choose stallions from either extreme to try and hope for as many non-warmbloods as possible. These two got chosen for the job

    image
    4G The Teachers Pet

    image
    $ A Ditto From Just Now


    BA for fillies, kept them all no matter what. If they were uneven went to the bootstrap pasture. Even went to the 5G mare pasture.

    SBA for stallions. ( I think I even had one with a foundation parent make it). Then they MUST be star papered. They also must not be warmbloods. (Unless they are WOW then I would consider a GMT)

    I was too lazy and didn't PT test. (Shame on me but I REALLY needed some rejects for a new barn)

    Teachers pet had 2 lethal foals. 9 foals in total made it. So even with foundation mares and only partial bonus he had only a 67% cull rate.

    Ditto had 1 lethal foal. He also coincidentally had a 67% cull rate. But he kept giving me all white foals which was not my favorite, so I figured he was at a high risk for more lethal foals and I don't like the all white ones. With 33 coverings he did not have a single Star paper. While with 27 coverings Teachers pet had 3. So in combination with testing, appearance, and lethal genes I decided to cull Ditto.
    Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
  • I thought it would be fun to look at this boy. He is from my Tagamon show line is probably the single largest influencing stallion on my show herd.

    Star papered

    image
    A4B Tagamon Forrest


    He had a full compliment of mares. (I think) all blue mares.

    46/50 were keepers.


    Procedures:

    SBA all stallions. (None made it)
    Performance test all geldings
    Breeding inspect all mares.
    Go through one by one and cull geldings lower than 11 PT. Performance test all red mares. If a mare is red papered and lower than 11PT she gets culled.

    58% overall alteration rate.
    8% Cull Rate
    Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
  • May I ask - why 'Kull' instead of cull?
  • I didn't think it was a real word so just going by sound.
    Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
    Thanked by 1CrewCut
  • This is a cool idea, HUSG, certainly helpful to do if you have excess studs to cull. Did Ditto and Teacher's Pet compare AGA each other before you tested them in-pasture?
    ID# 43830
    |<> Favorite flavors: wild bay, S+, satin, and ice 9. <>|
  • Please note that while it is OK on a VERY limited basis, we do not encourage folks to use the forums for personal journals. It could take over the forum and make things a real mess! (Not meaning to call you out HUSG, and you are not in any trouble whatsoever, but, I don't want people to get the idea that it is something everyone should start doing. I see yours more like a process you are working through and looking for input, not like a journal. Maybe it's just the wording! ) :)
    image
  • Ok I’ll go through wording again but I was hoping that this would be mostly other people sharing so we can all compare numbers I just had a few examples. I had this post a real life year ago and lots of different people shared. There was just confusion on cull rates/alteration rates.
    Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
  • I think it was more my thing with the word journal. What you're doing is ENCOURAGED, (trying out a theory and working through it) but we've had folks, in the past, try to use the forum like a personal memo for planned breedings and stuff like that.
    image
  • HT

    Ditto did test worse.
    Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
  • Anyone have any stallions that they would be willing to share with us?
    Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
  • Does anyone have any stallions to start off the season?
    Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.
  • This is the only boy I've used so far. Bred to a wide range of mares; all of which are still in my pasture.

    image
    Unknown Lover 2g
    Love,
    Spry
  • He’s pretty!

    What’s your goal for the pasture? I’d be interested to see how many you keep/cull
    Breeder of any and all crazy colored drafts and RH horses.

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