HGG Community Forums

Sooty tends to make for larger spots.

Here it is.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/comment/77381#Comment_77381

From what I’ve gathered genetics does influence spot size, but it’s unknown what genes effect it and hidden genes may be involved. I am not up to date on what was discussed in the thread though.

Huge if true. (it's not :P)

:)) @Ammit

I love LP horses and have since I met Ulrich's Monarch when I was a kid, and I've followed the genetics discussions about them for years. Spot size is thought to be inherited, but it's definitely not something you can count on with most bloodlines. I've seen mares with tiny confetti spots bred to a solid stud and throw foals with spots the size of eggs, or loud leopards throw foals with tiny freckles. lol

There do seem to be lines that breed truer for the big spots more often than not, but not many. Many appy breeders, no matter what breed the LP pattern is found in, swear by breeding spots to solids for the best patterns. I know a few with LPLP mares who use solid foundation-bred stallions with really nice results, but sometimes you can breed even a fewspot and get a foal with just one or two spots.

One line that is known for strongly defined patterns is the Wap's Spot 2 bloodline, but some think he had another gene that interacts with PATN. A lot of Wap-bred horses show patterns that are recognizable if you know the bloodline, especially the linebred ones, but even they don't always throw the loud patterns they're known for.

In game the only thing I’m sure of (semi-confirmed by Ammit) is that larger spots are associated with more darkening genes and smaller spots with less. So if you want to breed for megadots, starting with Hom DP Hom Sooty stock is helpful, and if you want microdots then you want all bright (no sooty) stock.

GUYS. BREAKTHROUGH.

I just used a random number generator to randomly sample 108 horses het for Lp (so I could see spot size) and carrying Splash 1 (both het and hom). 85 horses were classified as having small spots; 23 had mega spots. I then used a theory-based test to analyze the results, and ended up with a p-value of 0.0000. Statistically, this means that there is extremely strong evidence that the splash gene is associated with small spots in heterozygous appies. Correlation does not equal causation, but these results could be generalized to all heterozgous Lp horses carrying Splash 1.

@Ammit, how did I do?

And yes I have confirmed pigment density effects spot size.

Ok, so another hypothesis, which is probably totally wrong =))

If, as Ammit said, pigment density affects spot size (at least in reference to sooty,) then would agouti also operate in this manner (at least on E horses?) Homozygous recessive agouti (aa) enables black pigment, but a dominant agouti gene restricts black pigment to certain areas, causing the lighter-colored body of a classic bay horse. But there are three agouti genes in the game and all three enable different levels of black pigment. And I don't really know how this would apply to chestnuts.

A black chestnut obviously has more pigment then a classic bay.

All dilutions alter the amount of pigment. :D You are on the right track now.

Is the modeling in the game based on the Druml paper published last year?

I got a freaky friday happy once, the size of her spots were amazing! If only I bred for appy...

That makes sense, this game is so cool in its mechanics! I love how realistic it is.

@HTRanch I'm a graduate student in the biology department at my university so I had free access to it. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to read it because it's not cheap! I read it when it came out last year and thought it was pretty neat :)

I’ve been following this thread because it’s super interesting. lo And behold I got this goal to drop this morning. I’m in love with the large spots. I think I’m going to have to gmt my freaky Friday stud


Macc 2032839

I love the big spots, my herds have a lot of sty and DP, but also a lot of dilutions! Certainly my DP horses mostly seem to have bigger spots, but I also have livers with tiny spots, and browns with tiny spots. So I'm thinking pigment density isn't the only thing that affect spot size? So there is no genetic proponent?

I LOVE that colt pestilenttempest, those coloured spots are awesome!!