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MoonAcre Stables · Jan 14, 2016 10:34 AM

What colors can you tell from looking at them that they're DP ?
If anyone has picture examples I'd be grateful!
I cant find any threads on it by typing "dp" into the search and I'm trying to learn more about it lol

fj1482 · Jan 14, 2016 10:46 AM

I know there is a thread somewhere with some great pictures but I can't find it. DP you can't color test for it's something you have to train your eye to see. It gets really hard with they have sooty genes though. I'm actually working on a whole line of these. This is one of the 2nd gen boys. He is Het for DP. That means he has one DP gene.

This is his dad. He belongs to Cheers. He's a great example of a Homo DP. That means he carrys two DP genes. You can see how dark he is.

This girl does not have any DP she is Homo sooty. Sooty makes them dark but as you can see not as dark as a DP. She is sporting my DP tattoo because she is one of my foundation mares I'm using in that line to hopefully create some homo DP with homo Sooty and get some really, really dark foals.

And last but not least just a normal. No DP and no Sooty.

Baya · Jan 14, 2016 11:00 AM

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=326879
That is a homozygous dp mare

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=284342

And this is my homozygous DP palomino appaloosa

MoonAcre Stables · Jan 14, 2016 11:12 AM

Thank you both!

Fj, you gave me the most perfect example! I didnt even think to ask to see the same color regular, sooty, het DP, and homo DP! Thats amazing. Dp makes red a whole lot prettier lol

I love both you and cheers boys!

Cheers · Jan 14, 2016 11:26 AM

Moon, my stallion is Red King. He's also homozygous for sooty, so he has 4 darkening genes. If you check his offspring, you can see what heterozygous DP does with some bays as well, but I find it hard to pick DP in anything other than Chestnuts and even then color testing is helpful.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=304981

There are some Red King colts up for sale at the moment if you like the looks of his offspring.

fj1482 · Jan 14, 2016 11:48 AM

@Cheers King is exactly what I'm shooting for in my breeding line. I can't wait for next season to get a bunch of girls to breed to Grapes.
I can't remember what DP stands for? I bet if we look that up instead of DP we can find the thread Abbey posted with all her examples.

MoonAcre Stables · Jan 14, 2016 12:00 PM

Another question is getting a homo DP foundation or even het DP foundation is totally random?

fj1482 · Jan 14, 2016 12:06 PM

I believe Het DP is possible. I got this guy from the Flaxen Dark Chestnut HH, he's my Foundation Stallion for my DP line, and I got a mare too. Both within two days. I believe in order for them to CT as Liver they have to have at least three darkening genes, two sooty and the mysterious DP gene. I may be wrong on that though. Hopefully someone can confirm if I'm right or wrong.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=343585

Maribo · Jan 14, 2016 12:16 PM

You can get both het and hom DP when creating. And they are random, yes :)

MoonAcre Stables · Jan 14, 2016 12:25 PM

so say I wanted a horse that looked like cheers' red King. the flaxen dark chestnut hh would have a chance of creating that? As long as the horse was homo sooty?

Abbey Road · Jan 14, 2016 12:32 PM

Baya: Your first mare is hetero DP, not homozygous. See FJ's comparison; homozygous looks black. Also, you seem to be confused about the difference because you say your horses are homozygous and "might pass on DP." If a horse is homozygous for any gene, it will always pass it on, because there are two copies. If it's hetero it's a 50/50 shot. If your Wind Singer produces foals that don't look like they have DP, he's also hetero, but it's tough to tell for sure on cream.

Did I do a DP post? I know I meant to do a comprehensive one like I did for pearl, but it's more challenging because you can't test for DP or search for it. :)

Liver chestnut is definitely the easiest to spot. They are a very dark chocolatey color, with some great examples above. It's a little harder on other colors.

Bay (SstySsty) without DP:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=235155

Bay (SstySsty) with DP (known because her sire is homozygous):

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=307340

Wild bay interacts with it weirdly, seems to make them more red.
Wild Bay (SstySsty) without DP:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=235126

Wild Bay (S+Ssty) with DP:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=320686

RoseFlute · Jan 14, 2016 12:33 PM

A very, very slight chance, it yes. DP is pretty rare as a random HH gene.

Cheers · Jan 14, 2016 12:43 PM

Moon, the Freaky Friday rank special herd helper is also homozygous for DP. I don't know when the next Friday the 13 is coming up, but those guys were all black chestnuts or black with homozygous DP.

As far as getting homoDP from a random create, I suspect you would have to create a ton or be extremely lucky, but I hear it does happen. I bought King's DP when it was on sale at Thanksgiving. I have seen rumors on the FB discussion page that DP may be available in the GMT lab at some point in the future, but they are just rumors.

Abbey Road · Jan 14, 2016 12:46 PM

Brown (AtA SstySsty) without DP

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=313593

Brown (AtA S+Ssty) with DP (homozygous). Based on the comparison above I think it'd be really hard to tell if hetero.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=307130

Silver Brown (AtA SstySsty) without DP

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=183976

Silver Brown (AtA SstyS+) with DP

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=310985

fj1482 · Jan 14, 2016 12:46 PM

Bay is so hard to tell. I'm playing with that too. That's the nice thing about me starting a DP line. I love the dark colors and there are so many colors I want to darken up. Once I get my homo DP I'll have horses I can bring into my other lines and see if I like the DP with them and know for sure they have it because the horse I will bring in will be homo.

Abbey Road · Jan 14, 2016 12:47 PM

Let me know if this is helpful and if I should do dun, champagne, cream, etc.

Cheers · Jan 14, 2016 12:52 PM

Abbey it's super helpful! I would love to see buckskin if you have them laying around. And brown buckskin!

Abbey Road · Jan 14, 2016 1:17 PM

OK. Doing regular buckskin and then I have to go play with real horses, I'll do more later ;)

Buckskin (CcrC, SstySsty) no DP

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=317134

Buckskin (CcrC, SstyS+) with DP: (a foal but I think you get the idea)

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=349139

Wild Bay Buckskin (A+ CcrC SstyS) without DP:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=258855

Wild Bay Buckskin (A+ CcrC SstyS) with DP:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=206668

RoseFlute · Jan 14, 2016 1:59 PM

Wow! I might let some cream sneak into my lines, then. :D

Abbey Road · Jan 14, 2016 4:04 PM

Yeah, love that sooty buckskin!

SandycreekFarm · Jan 14, 2016 4:31 PM

Somewhere up there in the thread someone asked what DP stands for. It is Dense Pheomelanin. Pheomelanin is the scientific name for the red pigment in horse hair. Dense pheomelanin means that the particles of red pigment build up until the red hairs become extremely dark.

You can find a discussion of pheomelanin and eumelanin here in the genetics guide.
http://www.huntandjump.com/geneticsguide/?page_id=27 It is the page discussing the E/e, Black/red, gene.

Abbey Road · Jan 14, 2016 4:59 PM

Palomino (SstySsty) without DP:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=263841

Palomino (SstySsty) with DP:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=349168

This is a serious bummer because we used to have chocolate palominos, but they don't generate "chocolate" anymore. :(

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=172975 (he is old image gen)

fj1482 · Jan 14, 2016 5:11 PM

Aww that's a cool color. I wonder what happened to it?

MoonAcre Stables · Jan 14, 2016 5:17 PM

Abbey THANK YOU FOR THAT! I'm so glad I asked this question. These are the exact kind of answers I was looking for without even knowing I was looking for them hahaha.

Next friday the 13th is in May.. I'll be waiting very impatiently lol

Abbey Road · Jan 14, 2016 7:09 PM

Actually it's possible that first palomino mare has DP... pretty sure Paints and I decided that her dam carried it.

But as I'm scrolling through Sooty Pallys, I'm seeing some that look chocolate and some not. The sire of the foal I posted above is homozygous DP, so defintely carries it. So what makes chocolate?

I'm trying to find a palomino that has parents that don't look DP, but having a hard time... apparently most people who are breeding for pally are breeding dark. Got anything, anyone?

SstySsty Pally Foundation

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=294314

Sire is DP, dam doesn't look like it.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=289058

Both parents carry DP.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=307040

Maribo's Freaky Friday (and therefore double DP) palomino. OH MY.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=307125

RoseFlute · Jan 14, 2016 7:18 PM

Wow, Maribo. 0.0

Cheers · Jan 14, 2016 7:34 PM

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?status=any&ageg=&agel=&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&f_basic=none&f_adv=none&tattoo=&f_limit=25&stallion=1&mare=1&gelding=1&spayedmare=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=Palomino&color_lm=like&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&sire=&dam=&barn=&owner=3790&breeder=&e1=&e2=&a1=&a4=&a2=&a3=&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=&c3=&d1=&d2=&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&kit10=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1

I always think it is so interesting to look at a page of the thumbnails. These are my color tested palominos. One, the appy, is het DP but as far as I know no one else is. That said, some are quite dark (Sun Conure) and others (Ghoulish) are so light they are yellow, not gold.

MoonAcre Stables · Jan 14, 2016 7:50 PM

I am absolutely obsessed with these DP horses lol theyre so cool I need some!

fj1482 · Jan 14, 2016 7:52 PM

Oh WOW! is right. Love that homo Dp palomino. That is one of the coolest looking horses I've seen. Especially with the app butt and dapples to boot.

Abbey Road · Jan 14, 2016 8:30 PM

Brown Dun (Ata SstySsty)

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=304693

Brown Dun (Ata SstySsty) with DP:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=335094

Brown Dun (AtAt SstySsty). Now I'm not sure about the DP on this horse, there's a ton of it in her pedigree, so I'm going to say she probably has it. Amazing how much that second copy of At lightens.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=305844

Brown Dun (AtAt SstySsty.. and CCprl) Has a homozygous DP parent and a hetero, so at least hetero.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=320684

Abbey Road · Jan 14, 2016 8:37 PM

Just to ooooh and ahhhh over... DP wild bay goes crazy red now but this is what it used to look like (homozygous)

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=194835

I have his son, who used to be this black (thus his name), but I did a dumb and rerolled him. :( He is also homozygous, and this is what you get on wild bay right now. Honestly, I kind of love the blood bays but I am a sucker for deep and dark, too.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=206932

Anyway go ogle all of Dark Stranger's gorgeous babies.

fj1482 · Jan 15, 2016 4:53 AM

Looks like I'll be add that to my Copper Flame line along with satin.

PaintsStables · Jan 15, 2016 5:23 AM

Abbey, I think we did decide Antique Carousel could carry DP. That first palomino could carry it also. A lot of her offspring do have it. It is showing up quite a bit in my GP line that comes from Carousel and your Comet. She has eE, A+A, and SstySsty.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=208307

fj1482 · Jan 15, 2016 5:47 AM

I love these forms. I some how ended up with two OWAB Foundation and thought I would start a line of them. Then I realized they were Frame carriers. It set off a red flag because I thought I read it somewhere that Frame to Frame could be lethal. Sure enough, found the thread and it could be so instead I'm thinking I'll just breed them to het DP horses instead :) Get some nice dark Silver Amber Champagne instead.

Abbey Road · Jan 15, 2016 8:18 AM

Comet carries it too... and he used to be the same color as she is.

Baya · Jan 15, 2016 8:30 AM

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=346990

Could this filly possibly be Het dp in some way? Shes so dark

MoonAcre Stables · Jan 15, 2016 3:20 PM

Does anyone have any foundation DP horses for sale? Preferably a stallion but I'm not totally against mares lol

I'd loveee a freaky friday stallion but I'm sure everyones keeping those boys safely tucked away haha

Abbey Road · Jan 15, 2016 7:10 PM

I don't have foundations but I might part with a second gen if you're interested.

Baya · Jan 15, 2016 7:13 PM

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=338058

Abbey do you think this filly may have DP?

RipshinCreekFarm · Jan 15, 2016 7:53 PM

Just out of curiosity, what would a red dun with DP look like?

fj1482 · Jan 15, 2016 8:17 PM

If I had to guess this girl is a red dun with DP. If you search for red dun with homo sooty this is the first one I come across that is this dark.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=167821

fj1482 · Jan 16, 2016 5:32 AM

I was looking through some new creates and came across this guy. I thought for sure he was sooty but he's not. Would you say because he has no sooty he must carry DP?

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=349017

pinestables · Jan 16, 2016 5:49 AM

Here's my brown appy mare:

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=323104

Baya · Jan 16, 2016 6:19 AM

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=334205

One if my dark red duns

MoonAcre Stables · Jan 16, 2016 11:58 AM

Okay Ive got a question lol I created these three boys from the dark chestnut herd helper.
I havent color tested them but compared to the horses above I think they're just sooty. But all three of them are slightly different shades. Do any carry DP or are they just dark from sooty?

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=349942

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=349943

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=349944

Also this filly is only dark because of her Sooty+ right?

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=347148

I got three gorgeous colts between yesterday and the day before and they, of course, all got gelded.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=349199
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=349197
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=349378

Baya · Jan 16, 2016 12:13 PM

The three foundarions look just StySty

Abbey Road · Jan 16, 2016 12:18 PM

Yeah, I'd say out of all of those the only DPs are the geldings :(

Abbey Road · Jan 16, 2016 12:22 PM

FJ: That ButterflyKisses looks homozygous DP to me, but I think she's the old color generation, they look more bay dun now. I'll see if I can find one.

On the no-sooty dark chestnut, yeah, I'd say there's a good chance he's DP.

Abbey Road · Jan 16, 2016 12:29 PM

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=259584
This is homozygous (probably) DP on red dun. You see what I mean about them looking bay now.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=259605
This one I =think= is heterozygous (nexus), though it's possible she's homozygous, too.

When heterozygous it can be really tough to see. This girl's flaxen, her dad is homozygous so she's definitely hetero, SstySsty.

I think the muzzle shading and the dappling are clues, but by no means definitive, since you can get those on plain Ssty. And pangare shows up a lot on red duns too.

But here's a red dun (2sooty) without DP

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=243401

Cheers · Jan 16, 2016 1:00 PM

for comparison, this is a Het DP bay dun from my Red King line:

MoonAcre Stables · Jan 16, 2016 2:21 PM

I THINK I GOT MY FIRST DP FILLY! AND SHE DIDNT GET SPAYED

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=350070

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