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In this Discussion
- Abbey Road March 2016
- Cheers March 2016
- EccentricEquines January 2016
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- MoonAcre Stables January 2016
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Culling the herd and what to do with extras
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So, this question is to the more senior players, the big dogs if you were. I know the answers are going to very greatly and that its a matter of opinion but as a newbie I really want to know how you all do it. So here is the scenario. Your starting your line. Have everything finally set. A nice group to start with, mares in pasture. No more breeding individuals. You have graduated to the pasture where your new herd will stay and hopefully make lots of little foals. So, you breed, you have tons of foals. Obviously the first thing you do is run everyone through the major tests and any other test that is your preference. Whoever doesn't make the cut gets altered. As much as we all would love to keep them all only a few foals will actually get used in your next generation so what do you do with the foals who are still intact but for some reason or another wont make it into your next generation of breeding? Do you alter them and sell them as pretty show ponies? Try selling them intact? If you do sell them at what price and do you put stipulations on them? There are so many questions running through my head about this subject it really is over whelming to think about for to long. Help me out. What is the process that you all go through?
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Very good question :-) I am interested for the answer
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See, thinking about it to long and I have more questions. Do you just sell them intact at first and then the closer you get to your goal start being picky about what you do with the extras? At what gen do you start getting picky about where they go?
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On this do you sell private and wait it out? Or sell in auction. I know I sound crappy but even though The horses are not real I feel bad when my horses go to yum yum. I have even caught myself buying some I don't need to save from yum yum. I should start a foal rescue with all the money I don't have.
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ROFL I know right. I would hate to see a foal I worked hard to create only to have it end up being yum yummed because I didn't need it in my next generation.
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Lol and like I said I know it's not r3al but..... lol
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Even though I've been on this server since it was created, I don't consider myself a senior ;) But I usually only pasture breed my mares, and rarely do any individual breedings anymore, just because I hope to get the maximum quality foals I can get. I leave mares in pastures for their maximum bonus & leave them there for 3 breedings, and then paper them. This is how I determine which foals stay intact & which ones don't. If the mares don't paper what I expect them to, I snip them (and use them as a show horses) & snip their babies & either yumm them or keep them for show ponies as well. In your case, you could try to sell the intact foals that don't meet your criteria, but that's a hit & miss. I sometimes put some offspring up for sale, & keep listing them each year, and might sell 1 or 2. But I find that too much to look after each year, and couldn't be bothered. I am 'so over' the fact of yumming them, lol. I guess I have a cold heart <3<br />#110
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You're right, everyone's process is different. I posted my process on another thread a few days ago, I'll repost here for you.
I agree with EE... after playing a few years, most of the "doggoneit, he got gelded"s lose their sting because as fast as this game progresses you realize there's always next season.
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I never consistency test, ever. This is the cull process for the thousands of horses I breed every season.
1. Gelding advice and strict mare advice for every horse. Showing aptitude test. Leave the box clicked to geld/spay... they're not worth keeping if they don't past SAT and I've learned this lesson... there's always next season.
2. Then I pull them all from the pasture to the main barn (unnecessary if you hand bred a batch) and start going through them. I personally don't keep spays or gelds for lower generations but if you're just getting started and not breeding a lot of horses you'll probably want to. I go through and make a note on the mare's page if her babies were spayed or gelded so that I can later cull THEM.
3. Then I go through stallions. I look at all of them and see if they got the colors I was breeding for. If you bred in a pasture don't forget to check your email to see which is the best one. If they werent the best one and didn't get the color, I usually geld outright. Then I take a look and see how many studs are left, and paper my favorites. Everything that didn't meet my papering criteria for that generation gets snipped, note made on the mare page. Here are my standards:
2nd generation - B. No exceptions.
3rd generation - A. VERY rare exceptions.
4th generation - A. No exceptions.
5th generation - *Star. I used to make exceptions but they are extremely few and far between now, because I breed a lot of *Star studs. I cull a whole bunch of A's.
Everything above 5th gen must be *Star.
At this point I go through the stallions again, if there are several left. When you start out there probably won't be, but if you're breeding horses in pastures you'll find yourself with a lot of intact stallions. Cull again based on color if there are, or, if you're working at the higher generations you're currently breeding, start comparing. Yes, comparison testing is expensive, but if you're breeding quality it's totally worth it, especially at the 4k it costs when you're upgraded. Some people compare to sire to see if the stud is superior to his sire. I generally have a horse that's already been extensively comparison tested in each generation, which is my benchmark stallion for that generation. If a horse doesn't compare as good as my benchmark, he gets the snip, unless there's something wildly spectacular about him or I have nothing to compare him to. In upper generations where I don't have a benchmark yet, I compare to sire.
Be ruthless. Don't get too attached. Mantra: There is always next season.
I auction the majority of the horses that get culled, but that's because I breed SO MANY. My criteria for keeping a horse as a show horse is basically generation (upper generations tend to make better show horses), and also, how much money I spent on it. If I forked over the bucks to comparison test a stallion and he didn't make the grade, he gets to stay around in my barn to earn his keep and make up the money I spent on him as a foal. However, if you're breeding less than 100 horses a season, I'd recommend keeping everything. There are two ways to make money in this game: have a BIG show herd , and breed a bunch of horses and sell your culls. I do both. My weekly show bonus is three quarters of a million hb's right now and growing fast. When you make a bunch of hb's you can purchase IV's to buy more barns, to keep more of a show herd, which makes you more hb's, and after your show herd ages a bit you won't have to worry about how to finance your breeding addiction.. I mean operation. Also, show your breeding stock.
4. I do mares last. If they passed strict mare advice and showing aptitude test they generally get to stay, unless they really lost the genetic lottery and didn't get any of the color I was breeding for. I show most of my mares, except the cream of the crop in my pastures.
5. Cull broodmares. When I go through and make notes on a mare's page that her foal was gelded by GA or SAT, spayed by SMA or SAT, or gelded because of inferior papering or comparison testing, I have a three strikes policy. Three gelds or spays gets a mare snipped, unless she has produced more than 50% of foals that were not snipped (so, for example, if I have an older mare who has produced a higher percentage of intacts or some good PTs or good quality mares and stallion, she stays even if she has a few gelds inthere... they all do). Some people eliminate all of a mare's descendants when they cull her from the brood herd... I do not, but if a horse's dam has been culled that counts as a strike and sometimes two strikes if she's not particularly valuable in terms of color. Obviously, this process is a little bit subjective, and if I absolutely adore a mare she does occasionally get a little leeway on the three strikes system.
6. I performance test upper generations, generally: at this point, 7th gen on. Performance testing can tell you who it'll be good to keep as show stock if you're deciding that, although a horse with a substandard PT can make an excellent show horse. I find it more valuable as a barometer of the mare's performance (the average PT of her offspring, which you can see on her family page if you are upgraded. If not, you can calculate the regular way of calculating averages).
Hope that little novella is helpful to someone.
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I am by no means a senior player, but I'm slowly developing my method of culling (largely based on the one Abbey outlined in a previous thread) and getting rid of culls.
Newly created mares: if they don't meet my standards (color, PT) they either get offered on the HH they came on for what I have in them or they go straight to the public auction.
Newly bred colts: free test. PT and geld anything below my personal cut off for that generation. These geldings go straight to the public auction. Stallion paper what is left and colts that paper below what I want for that generation are snipped and go to the show herd. Go through what is left, comparison testing or designating as a cull due to color. Those I plan to cull I separate into high PT scores and low. High get snipped and added to show herd, low get put up for sale (I will be doing a big lot of these guys in the next couple of days) for what I have in them plus a little more. Whatever doesn't sell gets snipped and put in the show herd at monthly roll over. (So for instance, in my gen 2 herd, colts with a PT 10 and over go to the show herd, those below 10 go up for sale)
Newly bred fillies: free test. PT. anything below my PT standards gets evaluated for their value based on color. Those with special colors go up for sale intact with the boys, those without get sent to public auction. I keep the vast majority of the rest of my fillies intact for breeding. Anything with the wrong colors gets tagged, high PT is altered and put in show herd, lower PT intact and for sale. Special genes (like the roan with satin filly I sold the other day) I offer for sale on the forum individually because I know someone will use them!
Foals that don't pass free testing: PT, keep high PTs for show ponies, low ones go to public auction.
And then I sweep the mares and cull anyone not producing well enough. Depending on her offense, she is spayed and auctioned, spayed and goes to the show herd or goes to auction intact.Thanked by 1Ritsika -
This is a tremendous help. I'm copying and pasting and saving this thread in a document to my desktop. Yes, it's that helpful and I'm that addicted rofl (evil laugh)
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I should also add with the colts that my aim is to get down to 1 or a maximum of 2 intact new colts per "line" per breeding season. If I don't have any colts for that line I may hang on to colts that test inferior to my benchmark until I get a better one, but I am really trying to get rid of anything that is inferior as better colts come along...it's hard tho! Especially when colts I've bought or bred from straws test inferior to my benchmark.....
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Thanks guys:-) or gals:-)
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This is an awesome thread and helps a whole lot! Gives some good information for us newer players!
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I only put foundation mares in pasture with a foundation stallion. I hand breed the rest. I don't have enough time to sort through generations to make sure I am not breeding too uneven. After that I put them all back out to show. Like Abbey, I get around 1/3 of a million show bonus. I put them through free testing. If they get snipped, they go straight to the show ring. For intact colts, I test breed them three times, and compare them to other colts from the same sire. Whoever produces the better show horses gets to stay intact. I put the others up for sale. If they don't sell, they get snipped and go to show until they stop gaining me points bonus. Then they go to auction. I am a bit more lieniant with filly's, because I have A THING about wanting them to get papered. And as long as they can show, I get points bonus. I also am a softy for a pretty face, or in this case, color or pattern. I tend to let them stay unaltered if they pass free testing. Like Abbey, I don'the test for consistency anymore. As long as they don'the place last, I am getting that point bonus.
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I've been selling my boys that don't carry the colours I want, but I keep the girls to show. I alter some of the girls for extra bonus if they have a nice PT, the rest are put up for public brood + showing. I don't know if this is a sustainable way to do it though.
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Sounds like a good start to me.
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I agree it is a good start for you. I just checked for curiosity, and out of my top 10 All Time Points Earning horses. The top point earner is a gelding, the next two are stallions. The next five are mares, another stallion and the last of the top ten is a mare. And I am showing a net profit in the plus this morning again.
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Here's what I do after I breed a bunch of foals.
1. I put their generation in front of their name. If I hand breed I always name them gen first, then sire x dam (ie. "2 fudge x bar"). I also try to geld/spay anything I know I wont use as I breed them. If I pasture breed I take the time to go through everyone and put their generation in front of their name, and also spay/geld anything I am sure I wont use. (I.e. for my KP line, I will geld any boy that is not homozygous KP for 3rd generation and up)
2. I check to see if any of the mares I just bred needs to be papered. Anything that paperes yellow gets spayed. Any 3rd gens+ that paperes red gets spayed. Any 6th gen+ (hoping to get it down to 5th eventually) that paperes blue gets spayed. I might make a few exceptions after looking at their AFPT and who they were bred to.
3. I run everything through GA, SMA and SAT. Always with auto-alter.
4. I PT test every foal. Here is were the gen in front of their name comes in handy. I do them one at a time. I open up any 2nd gen that PTs under 10, any 3rd gen that PTs under 10.5, any 4th gen that PTs under 11, any 5th gen that PTs under 11.3...... You get the idea. Then I check each of the dams of the foals. If she has 1 foal, the PT had to be no more than 0.1 less than the numbers I mentioned for each generation. If she has two, it had to be under 0.1 less, and if she has had 3 or more foals the numbers above are a go. If the AFPT is less than that, the mare will be spayed.
5. I paper all the remaining colts. 2nd gen needs to be B, 3rd, 4th and 5th gen needs to be A, and 6th needs to be *Star. I am finally getting some 5th gen *Stars, so that will be my cut off soon. Any that is not, I open right away and geld.
6. I comparison test every colt, either against their sire or my benchmark for the generation. All colts must test to be superior to sire. Then, if I have more than one from the same sire, I comp test against a horse I know is superior to the one I tested against, to see if it is slightly better than my benchmark.
I breed several hundred horses each season, and might end up with 5-10 intact colts after testing. I never keep ANYTHING just because it's pretty.
Now, the reason I can afford to breed, do all this testing and buy barns is that I keep absolutely everything. I would rather get rid of breeders than show stock. I sell a horse maybe once a year. Anything I will not be breeding anymore is altered and put in a show barn, no matter what age. This game is all about patience. If you hold back on breeding a season, you will probably have the cash to buy another barn for more show ponies next season. It might be boring, but that's where the moolah comes from. You gotta have something seriously rare to make money from selling horses in this game. -
Thanks:-)
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Because I'm starting to have foundations mare who have had enough foals now to be papered I have another question. No one mentioned culling a mare due to papering. Do any of you cull a mare just based on her papering, specifically Foundation mares?
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I do. I cull everything below Red unless she's REALLY special. To be honest I think there's a fine line between Red and Yellow on foundations, and it's not terrible to keep Yellows, but watch AFPTs and how many gelded offspring they produce, give them another few seasons and see if they paper Red (if you do this make a note what season you papered them). The reason I cull them is really just because I have SO many.
Mare papering is not the same as stallion papering. There are a lot of variables involved like, was there a pasture bonus for the foals, and the quality of the stallions you're breeding to. Keep all that in mind when deciding whether to cull a mare based on paper level. If a foundation mare has been in a pasture for three seasons with full bonus and still papers yellow, she's definitely gone.
Second gens absolutely must be Red to stay, no exceptions. -
I also cull mares that paper Yellow after 3 seasons of full pasture bonus. I have a few yellows around, some who I use as flush mares and some who I bred really poorly in the beginning before I knew what I was doing, and a few that I've bought with foals on the ground who get re-tested after 3 foals from my boys.