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I would give him a few more seasons. I have a hard time getting stars and golds from my A and Blue stock too. If they were easy to get they wouldn't be so special. :) Sometimes you get luckier than other times. Also his A and Blue babies can still carry on the line and produce Star and Gold grand babies for you.

Remember stallion quality is only half the battle. If you think you have a decent stallion but aren't getting what you want, evaluate your mare line!

I personally am quite strict with my mares.

I cull by paper first.

Then by consistency.

Then by AFPT after three foals and for every single foal thereafter.

And I also cull if a mare gives me more snipped foals than intact foals over time, especially if they are getting snipped primarily by SBA.

All of my mares live in pasture, so their only job is to give me successful offspring. I mark every mare's page after each foal if they are snipped--

So it will say something like:

9.8i S x Harvest 49, G x Moon 50 paper

So that means in year 49 I bred the mare to Harvest and got a 9.8 PT inconsistent filly that was spayed by SBA. I mark the PT on snipped foals under 10.0 because I auction them. Then this year the mare gave me a colt that passed SBA but that I snipped because it papered lower than I wanted it to and kept in my show herd.

There is no record for year 48 which either means that the mare wasn't bred by me that year (possibly too young, possibly I bought her) or that she had a foal that has remained intact in my herd. So I check the family page and if she had a foal for me (meaning she's had 3 for me) I now calculate her AFPT remembering to add in the auctioned foal. If it's under 10.0, the mare gets removed from my herd.

I haven't yet worked out a system for Exceptional vs normal lines, but my required AFPT for mares by generation is:

Foundation: 10.0
Gen 2: 10.5
Gen 3: 11.0
Gen 4: 11.4 moving towards 11.5

Does that make any sense whatsoever? If it helps, I can give you the reasoning behind why I do what I do as well. Sometimes if you understand why someone does something it can help you figure out how to adapt it for you.

Yes Ammit it is. Is there away for me to improve the line to get a star from maybe his sons?

@Cheers yes that makes sense. I understand that a lot better.

5g Baileys Joe

He is superior to Joey and also his brother Joeys Vision. My question is do I geld all brothers except for Bailey? He is almost a whole point higher PT wise. I am thinking that if Joey is a low A then Bailey has to be at least mid to maybe high A papered stud?

Joeys Vision is also superior to Joeys Dream. I guess for me it is hard telling where they lay at low mid or high.

Trying to keep up with the conversation here but I'm only having a guess on which horse is being talked about?


4g Joeys Dream

If it's this guy here then I would geld and find another stallion. His mom has probably shunted his breeding ability and he's probably sitting about the same quality as his dad.

As with Bailey, yes geld all his brothers who are lower quality than him. There's no point in keeping a horse back if it's not your best horse. When you get something better than Bailey then geld him too. He's probably a mid-high A, ideally you want a 4g boy who compares AGA as him to replace Dream.

EDIT: Also to mention, I only have a handful of *Gold and *Star papered 5g's. Even with very good stock you'll still only pull a few good'ones. There's a few seasons when I don't even get a single * papered.

I have the dam. Just not the sire. I got his dam from you when my brother passed. I bought a straw to breed to her with.

I agree with Salvistar. Keep breeding him and maybe make a goal of getting golds and stars in the 6th generation. Just keep playing around with your horses and remember it's all for fun and you shouldn't be to hard on yourself for you're horses

Thanks everyone. I just want to do right by my brother and Dream. He was my inspiration.

I wrote down some goals for Dreams line.

How do I tag this thread on a phone? I want to be able to refer back to this one.

Bookmarks?

Maybe if you think of it as a challenge: I'm going to start with X quality stallion (insert Dreamers stats) and see how long, and what is required, to get his offspring to ....whatever goal you set? I can see that as being REALLY helpful down the line. Especially when you are supporting new players!

It really sounds to me like you want to justify keeping this line because of your memories of Joey, and you're worried that you can't. Personally, I think it is a perfectly legitimate reason to keep a line going. So make that line have a different goal than JUST quality. Then, when you DO have cool foals (recognizing that it may take longer to get them) you can cross them onto Dancers lines. I'm guessing Joey wasn't perfect, no reason to expect Dream to be, either! Whichever way you decide to go, you get big *HUGS* from me. This whole project is a TOTALLY cool way to remember your brother!