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SquishLime · May 6, 2018 8:53 AM

I'm sure threads revolving around DP come up all the time but so far I can't find what I'm looking for.

I've got a fair idea of what to look for in chestnut and palomino based horses to determine DP, but what does it look like with other factors influencing it? Are there specific colour names besides liver and chocolate?

Can you identify DP on say a buckskin or Amber champagne? When silver is involved, does that look different as well? I can't search the horses page with DP being untestable.
Thanks in advance!

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 8:55 AM

For example, I bred this lovely chocolate palomino pearl dun colt (of course he failed breeding advice) and it's interesting to see how much the pearl lightens the colour compared to other chocolate palomino duns I've seen

Chocolate Tears

ObsidianKitsune · May 6, 2018 9:04 AM

I champagne it is notoriously difficult to tell dp in them. I certainly can't. In bays and buckskins it's easier, and I'm pretty sure there is a post about it somewhere (I'll go look through my bookmarks and the links list). The more dilutions the harder it is to tell as well, so I'm hopeless when it comes to silver bay dps.

While you may not be able to search for dp specifically, you could always search for the RS with dp. Those are: Freaky Friday (only guaranteed hom dp), Dark Chocolate (chocolate palomino), Rhythm of Four (brown buckskin dp), and Kings Ransom (silver champagne, het dp).

Chocolate palomino pearl always produces that lovely silver colour though. I love breeding for it! My do herd sire is a hom pearl Freaky Friday, so he throws it a lot.

2LV Darkened Silver

ObsidianKitsune · May 6, 2018 9:12 AM

Here is a long (and slightly old) discussion on dp in different colours. You may find some more answers there! http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/5931/i-was-wondering-if-anyone-can-give-me-some-examples-of-dp/p1

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 10:22 AM

What a gorgeous horse, I'll have to keep an eye out for the Freaky Fridays now that I know what they are.
And thanks for the link, I'm hoping it will help me get an idea of what I want to breed towards.

ObsidianKitsune · May 6, 2018 10:25 AM

Freaky Fridays come out every Friday the 13th. I don't think you can even roll for them. They are hom dp, hom sooty and hom frame, so they can pop out black. The more usual colour though is a liver so dark you just THINK they're black.

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 10:41 AM

Ah I don't want frame in my breeding though, there has to be a downside haha

ObsidianKitsune · May 6, 2018 10:42 AM

Of course lol. But the good thing is that it is only 1 gmt to remove a copy of frame! Or if you don't have enough money to do so (I think it's roughly 250k hbs per gmt if you're using game money) you could always make the create to sell. FF is one of the RS that will always sell well

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 11:10 AM

That's good to know, I'm not going to be tempted into spending real money if I can help it lol.

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 11:43 AM

Why must the good ones never pass breeding advice? Finally get a nice liver with pearl and she fails :(

2059090 dun

ObsidianKitsune · May 6, 2018 11:49 AM

I can actually shed light on why that horse got altered! When you BA or SBA a horse, it's breeding ability is compared to both of it's parents. That girls mum is most likely a yellow, however since she hasn't been BA'ed she could very well be a "Failed" in papering. This means that she shouldn't be bred from at all.

Her father, however, is an A. That is two jumps up from a yellow! While the foal would most likely be better than her mum, she can't be better than her father because her mum can't produce that high, or at least not easily. To get more intact foals, BA all of your foundations, keeping the ones who pass. Foundations are easy enough to make to replace the ones that fail. Then try to "breed evenly", in this case meaning matching papers. Yellow -> C, Red -> B, etc.

Puissance · May 6, 2018 11:52 AM

That's a shame, she's a beautiful filly. With her pedigree being so uneven, she had very little chance of passing BA. With the 'bootstrapping ' method, when you deliberately breed uneven, most players don't BA filly foals.

edit: ObsidianKitsune beat me to it, and in more detail. So I'll just second what they said.

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 11:56 AM

I understand, I try not to BA my foundation mares until after I've bred them or I've wasted the create price if I can't get a foal from them. I'll try and keep to breeding even but unfortunately there aren't many options available that have what I'm looking for. Or they're RH which I can't stand the look of lol

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 11:59 AM

So if I hadn't run BA on the filly, and instead kept her without testing, is there a chance that any of her progeny could pass BA once I get more of what I'm looking for?

ObsidianKitsune · May 6, 2018 12:00 PM

You could always post in the forum asking for either HH's or created horses with the bone you like. A lot of people here are rather generous. And if you do no testing on a horse apart from BA, you could always auction it and get the create price back. That way there is no net loss

ObsidianKitsune · May 6, 2018 12:03 PM

Without papering I can't tell where her breeding ability is, so I can't tell which boys you should put her too. If you don't have the money/upgrade to paper horses breeding by generation is the easiest way to roughly breed even abilities. Although there is a wide range and it certainly isn't better than papering.

Or you could do something like a bootstrapping method, where you breed the girls to high quality studs (like A or Star papered) and don't bother BAing them, since it's likely that they won't pass. Bootstrapping is a good way to get a lot of show ponies quickly.

Puissance · May 6, 2018 12:03 PM

I've done the same thing, bred untested mares to maximize the investment. But once I get that foal, I test the dam. That helps me evaluate the foal and decide if I want to keep it.

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 1:00 PM

Thanks, at least now I know to take the papering into account before I breed if I want to create foals I can actually keep in my breeding program. So there's more to it than just pretty colours lol.

I did just purchase the basic upgrade today so hopefully I can get more of an idea of how things like that work. For the most part foundations should be bred to other foundations then?

ObsidianKitsune · May 6, 2018 1:05 PM

Well, you don't have to. Some people do second gen crosses to foundations. Sometimes you can end up with an intact between a B/yellow or C/red, especially if the B or red is low in their level. I personally like to have exceptional stallions who paper B and I'll cross them with any foundation, although the alter rate is higher than if the boys would've been C. Then there's also bootstrapping, but if you start with foundations 100% of their bootstrap foals would be altered by BA.

Puissance · May 6, 2018 1:07 PM

That's your decision. There are layer who really prefer evenly bred horses (1st gen to 1st gen, 2nd to 2nd, C to Yellow, B to Red etc.) and others who do't mind uneven. It can affect the market value of your foals somewhat. Bootstrapping tends to produce good show horses while you get your breeders to where you want them, even breeding tends to be more likely to give you foals that will pass testing. You have to decide what your priorities are.

HA! I should just leave you to ObsidianKitsune, I think they explain it better even when we say basically the same thing.

Haltanny · May 6, 2018 5:45 PM

I have tons of DP with and without sooty, cream, bay, wild bay, Brown, champagne, silver. I'll grab some examples later. There are posts that show bay and wild bay, I'll get those links too.

ChevalStables · May 6, 2018 9:13 PM

Royal Flush G2

This boy is hom DP.

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 9:40 PM

I appreciate the help from all of you :)

I never would have been able to pick DP on that horse @Cheval and I've seen a fair number of silver cream champagnes. I love the kitty too!

Haltanny · May 6, 2018 10:41 PM

1445397 - non sooty, no DP silver wild bay

ExPer DP Perfection - no sooty, het DP silver wild bay

Doa SS Andromeda - het sooty, no DP silver wild bay

1568829 - het sooty, het DP silver wild bay

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/29821/dp-in-wild-bays-project#Item_41
This link has examples of wild bay & buckskin wild bay with & without sooty &/or DP

Cheers · May 6, 2018 10:43 PM

Here is a discussion of regular bay as well:
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/forum/discussion/35673/shades-of-regular-bay#Item_32

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 10:51 PM

It's all a bit overwhelming, they look so similar when you've only got het DP affecting it. Knowing my luck I've probably sold a few foundations that have had DP and I didn't even realise lol

Haltanny · May 6, 2018 10:52 PM

ShoMe 6684 - regular bay based het sooty no DP Amber champagne

1665493 - regular bay based het sooty het DP Amber champagne

ExPro Ch 2025611 - regular bay based hom sooty no DP Amber champagne

G2 DP Prl Louie 537 Olw - regular bay based hom sooty het DP Amber champagne

Edit to add Het sooties

SquishLime · May 6, 2018 10:54 PM

To me that looks like any sooty Amber champagne I could have created with a herd helper, you need a very good eye to see what's hidden.

Wildland Acres · May 6, 2018 11:00 PM

I had way too much fun putting desirable genes on this guy in a way you couldn't see them. XD, but all of his foals are black based DP of various kinds.

Lokis Jest

Haltanny · May 6, 2018 11:06 PM

It doesn't help that the het DP's are dappled, but i can definitely see the difference myself. But I breed DP in various non-liver colors, so I have practice.

I have DP pearls, cream champagnes, browns, sables, silvers. If you are looking for a different color to compare, let me know and I'll see if I have it or if I am familiar with it. :)

BurntHillCreek · May 6, 2018 11:41 PM

DP is one of those things I don't understand or have a keen eye for. I do love sooty horses though.

Sinamon Sugar

TNP My Bloody Valentine

SquishLime · May 7, 2018 12:58 AM

The bay I'm kind of starting to see. When I created this ExPer mare, I guessed she was hom Sty which turned out to be correct. I suppose it's just a matter of knowing where to look to see the added darkening of DP

Bay sooty ExPer7

SquishLime · May 7, 2018 8:56 AM

This Hom sooty didn't pass BA so she's going to auction but is this likely DP or is that just the agouti modifiers?

Hom sooty 2065616

Xceptional · May 7, 2018 9:09 AM

Chocolate Pearl.

X Bad Luck Prl 3

Xceptional · May 7, 2018 9:11 AM

She is so Dark you would think she is Black.

X Freaky Fire 3 Bl

SquishLime · May 7, 2018 9:24 AM

I love the chocolate pearl. Black chestnut looks like just like regular black

Xceptional · May 7, 2018 9:35 AM

The Freaky Friday Livers Are that dark.

X RS Freaky Friday

JustaSaddletramp · May 7, 2018 10:55 AM

Here's one that amazed me when I did her testing... A dark dappled champagne with no sooty. I think she must have DP because I haven't seen another dappled like this that had no sooty.

RR Little GTO XPro C

SquishLime · May 7, 2018 11:19 AM

Love that colour champagne, you're right it's the same shade as my homozygous sooty

Rice Cupcake

JheydaStables · May 7, 2018 6:33 PM

So, I am having a hard time figuring out if this girl is DP or not. I used a sooty buckskin herd helper, created 5. This girls and one other came out like this. I haven't seen a Buckskin look quite like this before and, seeing as all five were sooty, I just can't figure it out.

Fooled Me Once

EDIT:
Here is the other girl from the HH

2068411

shad0cat · May 7, 2018 6:42 PM

I tatoo my DP horses if you would like to just look at a bunch in one place. All the horses with the tatoo are either showing their DP, Have given birth or sired horses with DP either showing or in their name, are a rank special known to carry DP or were bred by a Freaky Friday. You can even look at their pedigrees and see it passed through the line. I'm sure I have some that are unmarked but I don't like to mark them until I'm sure. If anyone sees any that they feel are incorrectly marked let me know.

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?runsearch=1&status=any&ageg=&agel=&agee=&erag=&eral=&erae=&heightg=&heightl=&heighte=&boneg=&bonel=&bonee=&f_basic=none&f_adv=none&f_limit=25&stallion=1&mare=1&gelding=1&spayedmare=1&bty=1&lined=lined&foundation=1&name=&name_lm=like&color=&color_lm=like&owner=&owner_lm=like&breeder=17105&breeder_lm=like&sire=&sire_lm=like&dam=&dam_lm=like&barn=&barn_lm=like&pasture=&past_lm=like&tattoo=Confirmed+DP&tat_lm=like&tat_and=and&club=&bc_lm=like&bc_and=and&e1=&e2=&a1=&a4=&a2=&a3=&f1=&f2=&p1=&p2=&s1=&s2=&s3=&c1=&c2=&c3=&d1=&d2=&g1=&g2=&ch1=&ch2=&z1=&z2=&sa2=&sa1=&kit1=&kit2=&kit3=&kit4=&kit5=&kit6=&kit10=&kit11=&kit12=&kit7=&kit8=&kit9=&sp1=&sp2=&sp3=&spM=&pax31=&pax32=&rb1=&rb2=&o1=&o2=&l1=&l2=&ice1=&icei=&ice2=&ice3=&ice4=&ice5=&ice6=&ice7=&ice8=&ice9=&ice10=&ice11=&ice12=&ice13=&ice14=&nexn=&nexx=&nexr=&nexg=&nexb=&rainr=&rainwt=&rainpl=&raint=&rainna=&brindle1=1&brindle2=1&wf1=1&wf2=1&wf3=1&wf4=1&wf5=1&wf6=1

Haltanny · May 7, 2018 6:42 PM

@JustaSaddleTramp That is is classic champagne, in other words, a black with champagne dilution. That's normal color for classic, with it without sooty. So unless you get DP foals from it without a DP parent, you can't tell by looking at black/classic/grullo.

@JheydaStables Those are both wild bay based (A+) and those are normal sooty wild bay buckskin, no DP. You can check the link I posted above about Wild Bays for more examples.

JheydaStables · May 7, 2018 7:15 PM

@Haltanny, thank you~
I have such a hard time with DP, even when I go back through posts about it. Either way, I love their colors

JustaSaddletramp · May 7, 2018 7:24 PM

@Haltanny Thanks! I wish mine all looked like that. My other two classics are kind of drab in comparison. I even tried rerolling them hoping for the dapples, but no dice. lol

SquishLime · May 8, 2018 8:43 AM

I used an ExPer HH and got a liver chestnut mare! Does that happen often?

2073291 ExPer8

ObsidianKitsune · May 8, 2018 9:32 AM

It is rare, yes! Wtg!

SquishLime · May 8, 2018 10:16 AM

Thanks I was very surprised. Is the light brown on her legs and muzzle due to the + on agouti?

ObsidianKitsune · May 8, 2018 10:33 AM

No, that's due to the pangere, notified by the "P" or "p" in a horses genetic code. Agouti only shows when there is an E present.

SquishLime · May 8, 2018 10:41 AM

Ah I hadn't even noticed that part. The At and A+ still confuses me a little as they aren't real genetic modifiers.
So being rare could I expect to get a lot for her if offered for sale? Otherwise I might as well keep her for my own liver breeding program

Puissance · May 8, 2018 11:43 AM

Liver isn't particularly 'rare', it's more that it's rare to get it from a herd helper that isn't geared towards 'dark chestnut' or 'sooty chestnut' or 'hom sooty '. Even getting a liver from those is uncommon. So being an ExPerf liver is where she's "rare". If you breed liver, she'll be a jumpstart for you to higher quality.

The game's agouti genetics are realistic, though.

A+ = wild bay
A = classic bay
At = brown
a = black.

Just as in real life.

SquishLime · May 8, 2018 11:51 AM

Would an ExPerf liver be in high demand from other players or am I better off just keeping her for myself? At this stage I'm still trying to make as much money as I can to buy barns etc.

And I thought brown phenotype horses were genetically identical to bay in real life, that the At gene test wasn't reliable. According to the genetics group I'm in anyway.

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